Episode 84: The Space Between: Finding Community in the Sandwich Generation with Dr. Krystal Sodaitis

• Meet Dr. Krystal Sodaitis: Physician Leader, Coach, and Author
• How One Book Sparked a Bigger Conversation
• What Does It Mean to Be in the Sandwich Generation?
• The Hidden Struggles of Physician Moms
• When You’re Both Doctor and Daughter
• Why Community Matters More Than Ever
• A Permission Slip to Pause
• How to Connect with Dr. Krystal Sodaitis

What if the time you’re spending caring for everyone else – your patients, your kids, your parents – isn’t lost time at all, it’s just a different kind of calling?

In Episode 76, “The Sandwich Generation Doctor Mom: 5 Shifts to Lighten the Load,” I began this conversation about the sandwich generation moms and today I have a special guest, Dr. Krystal Sodaitis, to continue that journey by finding community in the sandwich generation. 

She is a physician leader, certified coach, and author of a book on this very topic. 

Together, we talk about what it’s really like to be both doctor and daughter, how perfectionism shows up when you’re stretched thin, and how a little vulnerability can open the door to connection.

Dr. Sodaitis shares a gentle reminder we all need, a permission slip to pause. And she shows us that community often begins with one honest moment of “me too.”

Stay with us. This conversation might just help you feel a little less alone.

Meet Dr. Krystal Sodaitis: Physician Leader, Coach, and Author

Dr. Cindy: Hello everybody. Thank you so much for coming back to the Inspired Mom MDs podcast. Today I have a very special guest. I am thrilled to welcome Dr. Sodaitis, a physician leader, certified coach and author whose work shines a light on what it really means to live in the sandwich generation.

She currently serves as associate Chief Medical Officer at Health Alliance, where she leads efforts in population health, quality improvement and provider engagement. 

But what makes her work especially compelling is how she bridges that leadership with her coaching practice. She helps physicians and other highly intelligent professionals who identify as neurodiverse stop the shame and negative self-talk and start embracing their gifts.

With an advanced certification in physician coaching, she specializes in supporting twice exceptional individuals, even those who may not have an official diagnosis but struggle with focus, executive function, or perfectionism. 

Her message is powerful, different does not mean deficient. She brings that same honesty and insight to her book “Sandwiches are Delicious – This Feels More Like a Vice“. It’s a collection of essays, exploring what it’s really like to care for aging parents while raising a family and maintaining a career. 

I am so honored to have you here today, Dr. Sodaitis. Welcome.

Dr. Sodaitis: Thank you. That was a beautiful introduction. Thank you so much, Cindy. I’m really, really excited to be here. 

How One Book Sparked a Bigger Conversation

Dr. Cindy: Oh, I’m so glad, I’m so happy to talk about this topic. But before we really dive into the concept sandwich generation, was there a particular moment or story that made you realize that this phase of life that women are in really needs more attention?

Dr. Sodaitis: Yeah. You know, I don’t know, I can’t pinpoint a very specific moment. It’s interesting because I think I started to conceptualize this book and I actually had the title of the book in my head for years before I was doing the intensive amount of support for my parents that I do now.

And it just sort of stayed there. And here’s where a lot of my coaching tools really helped, it just stayed there. I knew I would write the book someday, um, but it just kind of germinated and, and I waited and waited. And, you know, somebody talked to me about something called the Tiny Book Course, and I was like, huh, okay, I’m going to do that.

I’m going to write the book. That was it. 

Dr. Cindy: Oh, and that’s it. And here we have it. So I’m going to just show it is the book. 

Dr. Sodaitis: Thank you. Thank you. 

Dr. Cindy: We’ll have a link in the show notes. Oh, that’s neat. So it was one course, that’s what sparked you to get going.

Dr. Sodaitis: Yeah, to give me the framework to like figure out, okay, how exactly do I publish this book? 

Dr. Cindy: Right? Because it sounds overwhelming at first. 

Dr. Sodaitis: And I was also overwhelmed. I don’t consider myself a writer. So I was overwhelmed about the prospect of writing a book and then somewhere in there I thought, no, I don’t have to write the whole thing.

I can get essays from other people and get their experiences – which honestly, I think now is one of the strengths of the book because it’s just not my experience, it’s other people’s experience. Some of them are really different from what I experienced.

Dr. Cindy: Yes. And that’s what I loved about the book – that it had different perspectives.

That’s great. So for those who may have not heard the term before, how do you define sandwich generation? 

What Does It Mean to Be in the Sandwich Generation?

Dr. Sodaitis: I think of someone in the sandwich generation if you are providing support, and that could be financial support or emotional support for a parent and a child. So your own child and one of your parents or even your in-laws.

Dr. Cindy: Okay. So that’s a nice broad definition that includes a lot of people. 

Dr. Sodaitis: Yes, yes. Yeah. 

And for even some people who are just, even some people who are providing support to, maybe it’s an older person in their synagogue or their church, or their neighbor. It’s not in the traditional sandwich generation definition, but that can also be a toll, especially if you feel a sense of responsibility to them as well as a child. 

Dr. Cindy: Got it. So you’re expending the same amount of energy, you just, you don’t have to be married into or blood related to that person. 

Dr. Sodaitis: Exactly.

 

The Hidden Struggles of Physician Moms

Dr. Cindy: Okay. Got it. What are some of the unique, emotional or logistical challenges that you see in this phase, especially for physician moms? 

Dr. Sodaitis: Yeah, I mean, I think the one thing about physician moms is as a group, we tend to think we should (in quotations) “be able to do everything.” And so we invariably have very full lives and days and schedules.

Yeah. And then you bring on the added responsibility. There’s a lot of, obviously, guilt in that. You always feel like you should be somewhere else, right? I have to take mom to the doctor, but then there’s a soccer game and then I have to, you know, I have to get to the clinic.

Maybe one of these people has an emergency and you have to cancel the clinic, cancel patients, and then that has to be rescheduled. So there’s a lot of guilt, there’s a lot of exhaustion. It’s not just physically exhausting to go. If you’re a mom, you’ve had days where you’ve literally spent six hours just driving around.

And that’s one level of exhaustion. But when you’re also dealing with a lot of logistics, in terms of doctor’s appointments and getting to the pharmacy and answering questions, that just adds to the physical exhaustion and then the emotional exhaustion. 

If one of the people you’re caring for has an illness, especially a chronic illness, that requires a lot of attention. You know, you have a child with a chronic illness, you have a parent who’s decompensating, whether it’s mentally or physically, that just adds to the emotional fatigue.

Dr. Cindy: So you’re emotionally fatigued, you’re physically exhausted, and you’re balancing all these logistics, which could change day to day if someone gets sick. 

Dr. Sodaitis: Exactly. 

Dr. Cindy: Or something new happens. 

Dr. Sodaitis: Exactly. 

Dr. Cindy: Wow. And you’re balancing that with patient care as a physician. 

Dr. Sodaitis: Yes. Yes. And there is a little bit of humor.

It’s kind of like gallows humor. But, where, you know, yes, I call my dad. And I use a specific, sort of, it’s not a platform, it’s something called Jubilee TV because he can’t use the phone anymore. He can’t use the computer.

Dr. Cindy: Oh, okay. 

Dr. Sodaitis: And even now, you know, it’s funny, but it’s not. He’ll pick up the remote control and use it as a phone thinking he’s talking to me, but it’s really on a screen. Yeah. And I’m like, Ugh. Or like asking him to turn the TV off or turn the volume down. But he really can’t because he doesn’t really know how to use the buttons anymore.

So it’s really sad and painful, but in some ways you’ve gotta, you know, not, it’s not like a laugh funny, but it’s like, oh my gosh. 

Dr. Cindy: Yeah. Yeah. You’re finding a little lightness in the moment. Yes. Maybe if not humor, but it’s just kind of lightness. 

Dr. Sodaitis: Yeah. 

Dr. Cindy: Yeah. And I find that too, in medicine that’s personally how, well, a lot of physicians cope with something so distressing. Just to find the lightness in it. 

Dr. Sodaitis: Right. Exactly. 

When You’re Both Doctor and Daughter

Dr. Cindy: It’s not funny, funny. But yeah, I get what you’re saying, right? 

Now you work closely with physicians and other professionals too. How do you see this perfectionism and these high achievement tendencies show up during this phase – being a sandwich generation mom? 

Dr. Sodaitis: Yeah, because we have this idea that we should do everything and we should do everything well. Maybe not perfectly, but I should be able to manage all these things well. 

And you know, I’m a pediatrician and if I think that I can understand my almost 90-year-old father’s medical conditions. Like there’s no way. And I think that a lot of physicians think that they need to also understand everything that’s happening from a health standpoint with their parents and maybe even try to be sort of like the sideline doctor. When you need to distance yourself.

There’s a reason why physicians shouldn’t take care of family members. So I see that coming up. Yeah. And just to be just thinking like, I should have a perfectly clean house and all the laundry should be done, and all the kids should still be in all their activities. And, another way that, and I don’t know if this exactly relates to your question, but what I have struggled with is coming to terms with who my parents are now.

Because I have an idea, like when I was first in medical school residency as a doctor, my parents were fully functioning. Like I could talk to them about things. I could just tell them like, Hey, I could talk to them at that time. I’m that old. I probably wasn’t in the car, but I could talk to them and say, I’m going to work. I need you to, like, you have a here, do this, this, and this. And it would get done. 

I certainly, neither one of my parents at this point, my dad, there’s no way my mom would say, sure, I’ll do it. And then I need very specific instructions. And each time she would call me or connect with me or text me, “How do I do this? Show me how to do that.” 

Like, well, you’re not actually doing it. I’m not sure if that relates to the question, but I just felt like this was a good time to bring that in. 

Dr. Cindy: That’s a great time to bring that in. I think it does answer the question because you did say that there’s this feeling of wanting to do everything perfectly, and so that goes straight to the perfectionism. Yeah. 

But I love that you brought in how parents change as they age and your roles and relationships with them – I don’t want to say mature because it doesn’t necessarily get better in the sense of what mature is. 

And then you mentioned too, being a doctor, thinking, you know, I’m a pediatrician. How do I, how do I really know what my 90-year-old father is going through? Yeah. 

So I’ve mentioned this before in another podcast, but my mother passed away when I had a 1-year-old and a baby, like a little five month old. Yeah. And so there was a prolonged period where she was in the hospital, in the ICU, just all, all the things, just horrible. All the things. 

And here I am, I’m an anesthesiologist, but I’m not, and she had cancer, I’m not an oncologist. So I had that struggle of feeling like I needed to know, like her treatment plan and when they were doing things and, you know, and it just, it was too much of a burden to put that on me – to think that I would know just because I have an MD after my name, exactly what she’s going through.

I could do anesthesia, but I don’t do oncology. So I really hear what you’re saying there. And I think that this dual identity of being both a doctor and a daughter in my case really creates a conflict. And have you seen that same conflict in yourself and which I think is what you’re talking about, or your clients. Tell me about that.

Dr. Sodaitis: Yeah, very much. Very much. And they, and our parents, neither one of my parents are physicians, so they rely on me to help them make medical decisions. And to interpret what their physician is telling them. Which I do to the best of my ability. But also if I’m talking, my mom might have me on the phone when she’s at the doctor’s office.

I do take my dad too. because my dad lives not close by, but within driving distance, my mom doesn’t. So I will take my dad to his doctor’s appointments and often they talk to me as if I’m a lay person and I don’t stop them. I don’t correct them. I might use my own medical terminology when I’m speaking to them because I’m not sure that I could do otherwise.

But I don’t stop them. I’m like, yes. I want you to explain this to me like I’m not a doctor. 

Dr. Cindy: Yes. I agree. And it’s almost like you don’t want to tell them you’re a doctor sometimes. Yeah. So they just tell it to me straight. Yeah. 

And I just want to add, when I was helping to care for my mom, I had to make a conscious decision to step back into the daughter role. And out of the doctor role. And, I think I even said it out loud to the physician, like, “I am her daughter right now. You need to walk me through this.” 

Why Community Matters More Than Ever

Dr. Cindy: So, continuing our conversation.

I had a recent episode on the sandwich generation, and I talked more about the mindset shifts that you can use to help you get through this phase. And one of them that really stood out for listeners was having a sense of community. 

And, I am curious, what does a healthy community look like for someone in this phase of life, especially when physicians are so used to being the ones that everyone else depends on. 

So how do you flip that around and get a community? 

Dr. Sodaitis: Yeah. I think if you can, the first sort of circle of the community is family. I feel really lucky. My husband is incredibly supportive, and will sometimes go see and take care of my dad without me. Like he’ll just go and be like, oh, no, no, I’m going to go and I’m going to do this and this and this.

My brother who, so we’re in Illinois, my brother lives in California. He is incredibly supportive and even though often he can’t actually physically do anything, he’s a really good sounding board. Sometimes I just need to call him to vent. Like I’m just, I just need to like pull my hair out. And he never judges me for that. He’s never like, you know, why are you calling me like, this isn’t a problem. He just absorbs it all. And I really, really appreciate that. 

And I know not everyone has a great relationship with their sibling or you know, all of their siblings. But if you can find, and you may not have that kind of spouse or any spouse, but

if you can find that, I think that that’s really important. 

But otherwise, you know. Who else is your support within your life? Maybe it’s somebody you hired. Maybe it’s a nanny. Maybe it’s just if you have one or two close friends. And the support doesn’t always have to be, I need, can you take my mom to the doctor?

And some people will. Sometimes just having that like my brother does for me, just having that sounding board, just having someone that you can, you know, talk to that is willing to hear those things that are funny but not funny because you just need to get them out as a release – I think is, is is a first step.

And I’m sure that there are, I haven’t looked for a sandwich generation Facebook group. I think that that’s sort of what Facebook has become, kind of like a place where people find their community. But if you can, maybe there’s a sandwich generation Facebook group that allows people to talk about that.

I know I mentioned Jubilee TV. And so they have a Facebook group, and I haven’t really utilized it, but I’m sure that I could go in there because it’s all for people who need to set up a device through the television to help them communicate with their parent, and also control the tv. But I don’t do that part.

But you probably have to have a Jubilee TV to do that. 

Dr. Cindy: True. And I was going to ask you about that – what about online? But what I’m hearing is that close family is a natural first circle to go to. There are also some unexpected places you can find help, where it could be someone like your nanny just listening to you.

And, you were mentioning Facebook groups, the Jubilee Group. I found that Reddit’s a popular community too. I don’t know, but that seems to be pretty popular too. Yeah, I agree. There are many groups out there that you can reach out to if you have to.

And you could be anonymous too. And then you can vent yourself, vent your feelings. 

Dr. Sodaitis: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. 

Dr. Cindy: I think so many physician moms are struggling with that in that I think a lot of people are so busy and as we get older, we don’t keep as many of the close friends and so that that community is a little more difficult to achieve.

Dr. Sodaitis: I just thought of one other thing too. That is that there may be more people that are struggling with this, then we think, right? Because also many physicians – we have children a little bit older, so our parents are going to be a little bit older, and our kids are kind of school age.

There are other people who are in that same situation. Sometimes you just have to ask, sometimes you just have to be the first person to say, “wow, I’m really struggling with dealing with my mom and my kids at the same time.” 

Dr. Cindy: Yes, 

Dr. Sodaitis: To see what they say. A little radical vulnerability. Isn’t that what Brene Brown or somebody says?

Dr. Cindy: I was just going to say, that’s vulnerability. Yeah. And it’s so amazing how once you put that out there, once you say something like that, how many people in the room speak up and say, oh, feeling the exact same way. Yeah. And then there you go. You have a community right there. Exactly. I’m so glad you brought that in.

A Permission Slip to Pause

Dr. Cindy: Yeah. Oh, thanks. So for those listening today, just right now, feeling stretched thin between their parents or their loved one, or someone they’re responsible for, a big person, and the little people they’re responsible for… what’s one small step they could take to just feel more grounded?

Dr. Sodaitis: Oh, to feel more grounded. Yeah. You know, I am going to give them a virtual permission slip to take 15 minutes. It could be at the beginning of the day. In the middle of the day. Take 15 minutes just for yourself. You don’t have to do anything. You could scroll, you could read, you could sit in the bathroom by yourself for just 15 minutes. Set the timer.

Here’s a permission slip. It’s yours. 

Take that because sometimes that’s what we need. We need somebody to just say, you’re allowed to do this. 

Dr. Cindy: Of course. You are allowed to take 15 minutes for yourself. 

Dr. Sodaitis: Yeah. 

Dr. Cindy: And I’m trying to mentally add up how many minutes are in a day that you’re giving to other people. I can’t do it on the spot. Yeah. But fifteen’s nothing. 

How can people listening today reach you if they want to reach out and talk to you? 

How to Connect with Dr. Krystal Sodaitis

Dr. Sodaitis: Yeah. Thanks so much. So my website is Neurodiverse Docs. I will say that for people who are neurodiverse this is a really, really challenging time, especially if you struggle with executive functioning.

Now you have added layers of responsibility and things to, you know, organize and coordinate. So you’re not alone and you know, I would love to help. And so Neurodiverse Docs is my website. 

And the book, you can read the book. I absolutely love the stories that people were vulnerable enough to share with me. I wrote maybe like five or six of them, so a little less than half. But that’s on Amazon. It’s really just on Amazon. It’s printed on demand, so you should get it relatively quickly.

I do have an e-version on my website. I can send a link to you if you want to. If people want to just read it, it probably pulls down as a giant PDF. So I’ll send you that link as well. 

If you just want to connect my favorite places are LinkedIn, I’m Krystal Revai Sodaitis on LinkedIn, and Life Coaching for Gifted on Facebook. 

Dr. Cindy: Got it. And I’m sorry we didn’t touch more on your coaching for neurodiverse individuals because that’s, we could do a couple hours on that or more or days.

You have so much in your background, we could talk about, but we just really narrowed way down to the sandwich generation today. 

There’s so much more to Dr. Sodaitis than sandwich generation, I just want to say. Just thank you. Thank you for sharing your insights and your stories today.

I really appreciate you being here, and I hope that everyone got a nugget of information today that helps them move forward. 

Dr. Sodaitis: I hope so too. At least their permission slip. 

Dr. Cindy: Permission slip is the key takeaway today. 

Dr. Sodaitis: Well, thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me. 

Dr. Cindy: You’re welcome.

Links for Dr. Sodaitis: 

• Website: Neurodiverse Docs
• e-book: https://link.neurodiversedocs.com/ebook
•  Amazon.com link to Sandwiches are Delicious – This Feels More Like a Vice :
• Krystal Revai Sodaitis, MD, MPH, CHIE | LinkedIn